Hello. I'm new here and I hope I'm using the correct topic. Assuming I am, here's the background. My ex husband and I have two children, my son who just turned 12 and my daughter who is 8. My ex remarried a few years ago to a woman who was a non-active Mormon. They have since become very involved in the LDS church and my ex has been baptized. Everything they do is church-related and my kids are adamant they want to be baptized in the LDS church. I have been doing my home-work, speaking with some ex LDS and RLDS members, etc but I still can't seem to get through to my 12 year old. About a month ago my son came to me and told me he was getting baptized in the church. He did this with his dad and step-mom present and it was basically a 3 vs 1 situation but I stook my ground and told him I would not approve it and expressed my concern in the "brainwashing" of the church, etc. Needless to say, the conversation did not end well. My son and I are very close and I was able to calm him down and agree to a one year wait while I try to talk some sense into him. This "one year" lasted only a month and last night he told me (while he was at his dads and on speaker phone) that he doesn't care what I think, he's getting baptized into the LDS church. He's asked for a meeting between all of us and I suspect this includes members from the church.

I am very strong in my faith and whole-heartedly believe I'm doing the right thing by not approving this baptism. I have encouraged my son to be baptized into the body of christ, not a specific denomination but he has rejected that.

I feel like things are calm when the kids are with me during my visitation time. We attend our regular church, etc. But the second he goes to his dads the tables turn. And now my son is getting multiple text messages from the missionaries, etc regarding praying for ME to do the right thing. This has gotten completely out of control and I'm not sure what will/can happen next.

I guess I'm asking two things...First, I've found in the Church Handbook of Instructions that the permission of both custodial parents is needed for a baptism. Is that correct? Second, do any ex-Mormons have any words of wisdom I can share with my son to help him see the cult-like tendancies of this religion? Keep in mind, he's only 12 and will be forced to participate in this church regardless of my wishes. I dont want to scare him.

Thank you for your help!

Nonmormonmom: Hello and welcome to the Forums....

Best thing to do is consult with your Lawyer to see if your children are being intimidated and brainwashed into doing this...

If so Begin a custody battle use that bit about getting the permission of BOTH parents for a Baptism....

GOOD LUCK !!!

_________________
"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". - John 8:32

"Big beat deliver me From this sanctimonious skunk....We're no flaming angels And he's not heaven sent - Joni Mitchell TAX FREE

You can add this to one of your grateful prayers, Mormon Mitt Romney lost two elections. Maybe God is pissed and fed-up with the many decades of continued lying and worse yet, the ever failing attempted cover-ups.

At least your kids won't have to recover from every adult they ever knew, telling deep and hurtful lies to them.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{ If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~ Stevie Wonder }
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God of Poly-Folly Folly

Hello nonmormonmom,

The first step would be to find out what it is about the LDS church that is appealing. One possibility is that in church he is very popular.

_________________
May all your naps be joyous occasions.

Make it very clear that you expect your child to wait until they're 18 to decide if they want to be baptized and stick to your guns. Don't let them bully you.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Yes, both custodial parents permission is required, but Mormons often do not follow their own rules. You need to find out who this bishop is and write a letter immediately.

HOWEVER... If you are divorced then your decree should stipulate matters of religion. If you have stipulated that religious matters will be decided by both parties, then include this portion in your letter to the bishop of the ward.

Twelve year olds are pretty smart, however, peer pressure in Mormonism is immense. If everyone he lives with and friends are doing it - chances are he will too. Even I at the age of 18 was shown material about Mormonism I didn't understand - and I joined anyway out of pressure - and hormones.

_________________
Read: MormonCurtain. Resign: MormonResignation. Recover: ExMormonForums.

Technically, your son is still a minor and as such, under your direct care , so that should have a definite bearing upon your mentoring/parenting situation until he becomes an adult at 18, and can do as he wishes then.

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."

Neither he or his friends influencing him have an iPhone with a data plan, do they?

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{ If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~ Stevie Wonder }
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God of Poly-Folly Folly

Ok so i'm not familiar with the American Law that much but i'm a lawyer here in Turkey and here in case of a divorce the minors need the permission of both parents (regardless of if it's a shared custody or if only one parents hold the custody of the minor) in case of any decision that may affect the future of the child. this even includes minor stuff such as applying for a passport/visa/moving out of the town where one of the parents live in etc (in case of a shared custody)...as i see from other comments this is pretty much the same in American Law also so i'd suggest you not to lose anytime and go consult a lawyer and initiate a lawsuit if your son gets baptised without your permission. i don't know the exact procedure but maybe you can even send a notarized letter to the local church and to church headquarters notifying them that in case they baptise your son you WILL resort to legal action? (basically a legal threat ) i just turned in my resignation letter this week including a legal threat and trust me...if these folks are afraid of one thing it's a lawsuit...guess it's probably because they're hiding a lot of stuff from law enforcers and stuff..

It is pretty tough for an adult to handle the manipulative, deceptive missionary discussions, much less a 12-year old boy with no knowledge of what they are doing, and with the pressure of his father. Also, I would advise that you do not agree to meet the missionaries nor take their lessons.

My first thought was to ask your son if he wants to cancel the agreement you've made to wait a year. Then, if he says yes, you say that he can wait until he's 18 to get baptized.

To understand what your son is being subjected to, I would recommend a tract by Wesley P. Walters entitled Enticing words of man's wisdom : a survey of the Mormon missionary mind-manipulation methods. I have a few copies of it, but I am not sure where you would get a copy now. Another person who described the manipulative techniques of the missionaries is Bob Witte. He recently popped up here and linked his archive of tapes done in the late 70's, early 80's. While a little dated, I doubt that the discussions (the missionary lessons) have changed too much. You can go to http://www.emfj.net/MP3/Witnessing/R62-The%20Restoration%20Discussion.mp3 to get his take on their discussions. He has other recordings available for download that would help you also: http://www.emfj.net, plus some tracts he's written.

Unfortunately, you are in the position of needing to learn more about Mormonism than you ever would want to do so on your own. From what I have heard from others, the better tactic to take with your son might be to ask him questions about the church. Make him come back to you with answers to things that bother you about Mormonism. Raise questions that are unanswerable if you know about Mormonism. E.g., once you know something about Mormon doctrine, you could tell your son that if he shows you one quote from the Book of Mormon that teaches a unique Mormon doctrine, then you will let him get baptized. It is not there. There is nothing in the Book of Mormon about God having a physical body, man becoming a god, plural marriage (in fact it specifically contradicts Smith's subsequent revelation on polygamy), etc.

Good luck with your son and I am sure that here you will find support to hold your ground.

_________________
Tell my mother, tell my father
I've done the best I can
To make them realize this is my life
I hope they understand.
I'm not angry, I'm just saying
Sometimes goodbye is a second chance.
Shinedown, "Second Chance" The Sound of Madness

Hi and Welcome,

"About a month ago my son came to me and told me he was getting baptized in the church. He did this with his dad and step-mom present and it was basically a 3 vs 1 situation but I stook my ground and told him I would not approve it and expressed my concern in the "brainwashing" of the church, etc. Needless to say, the conversation did not end well.
"

This isn't how communication should happen. If your son is interested in something, you and your ex, the two responsible for him, should discuss it and make a decision and let him know if it's acceptable. Same as if he wants to do anything that will affect the two of you. Big life changing decisions are the parents decision, not the kids.

To exclude you from this decision making process is diminishing your role in his raising. It leads to problems down the road. You and your ex are in charge with equal votes, just as you would be if the two of you were married.

To have your ex put you in the bad-guy position is wrong and you are right to stand your ground.

If your son asks again, tell him that you and his father will discuss it and tell him what y'all decide. Kids don't get to make this kind of decision. Kids get to give input on this kind of decision, about why they want to, about how they feel about it, etc. It's a parents decision. Don't flip the authority upside down because there was a divorce. Don't let your Ex flip it upside down because he wants the boy to do what he wants at this point in time.

If you and your Ex can't make a decision on this then maybe you should ask for the assistance of a parent coordinator or such who can help the two of you negotiate peacefully.

Does this make sense?

My post is more about the process of making the decision than about the decision.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17

Some good recommendations POC. Its the process that really counts, isn't it?

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."

True, POC. You don't want to be asking, "Who's the parent here?" It's not up to a 12-year-old. He doesn't get to 'tell' his parents what he's going to do until he's 18.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hello, Nonmormommom.

I feel for you. The advice that has been given is sound. There's nothing I can add to that. But I can tell you a true story! I have a friend. He was a teenager. He was all giddy about the Mormon church. His parents were members of another nontraditional (cult?) religion. They absolutely refused to let him be baptized. In their eyes, their church was the only true church. Getting baptized into any other religion would like turning your back on God, and then you couldn't get to Heaven and cool stuff like that. Also, I guess, you wouldn't be better than everyone else. Real bummer, huh? You can understand where the parents are coming from. You can understand where the kid is coming from, too. A teenager. Get it? Total adrenalin, testosterone, dopamine, serotonin. He was so excited about the prospect of becoming a Mormon, it caused some difficulties in his relationship with his parents. After he calmed down enough to agree to their demands, he spoke glowingly of the future day when he would be baptized. Thank goodness, his relation with his parents improved, too.

So he turned 18 and got baptized. In about two years or less, he dropped out, with arguments as critical of Mormon doctrines and behavior as they had been filled with praise before his baptism.

The drop out rate of new converts to Mormonism is incredibly high within the first five years after baptism. Some exmormons who have posted here at exmormonforums were members for less than a single year!

It may be that this does not provide immediate comfort, Nonmormommom. If you keep it in mind, you will see that your children's dalliance with Mormonism is a temporary flirtation, an attempt to secure stability and lasting love in their current uncomfortable family situation. If they get baptized now, they may not come out of it till after they leave home; or they might figure out right away that if Mormonism is the answer, they weren't asking the right question. If they wait till they are 18 and get baptized, I think they will get bored even more quickly. So no matter how things work out, if they do get baptized, don't give up hope. In fact, if they do that, and you are unable to undo it through legal channels, you might do a turn-around, tell them you support them in their decision. That way, it's no longer a Me vs. You issue, nor a Dad vs. Mom issue. It becomes what it really ought to be - a genuine question of Mormonism True or Mormonism False.