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robinidaho
Post  Post subject: Re: Finding the Truth  |  Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:37 am
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God of Southeastern Idaho

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rc52 wrote:
indy_jh - Thank you. So far I have really enjoyed the exchange of thoughts and ideas. I find myself very comfortable amongst the people in this forum. While that may seem like a given, you never know what the group temperment of such a forum will be until you jump in.

I appreciate you considering my book. Two things to know up front. First, it is clearly non-denominational in it's spiritual treatise and second, I consciously edited every word to ensure I did not get negative on any subject, even if I was so inclined. Rather I tried to remain objective and let the reader decide whether to ensorse or condemn any given topic. The best place to find my book is probably on Amazon or barnesandnoble.com. The ISBN's are as follows: ISBN:
1-4500-3941-3 (eBook )
ISBN13: 978-1-4500-3941-3 (eBook )
ISBN: 1-4500-3939-1 (Trade Paperback 6x9 )
ISBN13: 978-1-4500-3939-0 (Trade Paperback 6x9 )
ISBN: 1-4500-3940-5 (Trade Hardback 6x9 )
ISBN13: 978-1-4500-3940-6 (Trade Hardback 6x9 )
Please excuse the shameless plug. LOL

You bring up a subject that is the source of some angst on my part. That being how the church treats gays. I contributed to a SL Tribune forum a while back on this subject. Below is a copy of my submission.

Just so we’re clear, I’ll begin by giving you some relevant information about myself. I’m a married, heterosexual male raised in Utah by a protestant mother and an inactive LDS father. At the moment, I am a card carrying Mormon. Personally, the thought of having sex with another man is repugnant to me. Then again, I don’t like sweet potatoes either. But it doesn’t matter to me if someone else likes them. That’s their business.

For some time now I’ve followed various articles and posts concerning current moral issues such as Proposition 8. Over the years I’ve come to realize that you cannot nor should you legislate individual morality. Our society is very diverse. Not only was that diversity one of the overriding reasons the United States came into being; it is inherently ingrained within the nature of freedom. In a democracy, we are not all forced to conform to one viewpoint. The ‘law’, at least in this country, is supposed to grant citizens equal protection and provide them with a uniform application of justice regardless of their personal lifestyle.

So, in the case of legalizing gay marriage for instance; the overriding question for the law is not to determine if gay marriage is moral. No one is forcing anyone to behave in contradiction to their personal moral code. The question is; does the law provide fair and equal treatment of all citizens? In a democracy the majority decides what societal norms are. That these norms can change over time is a testimony to the progressive evolution of society. As we evolve, we become more tolerant of those who are different than ourselves and therefore the law expands to embrace the once excluded. The women’s rights movement and the civil rights movement of the sixties are examples of this.

The early Mormonism practice of polygamy was clearly outside the marital parameters set by civil law. So the Church had two choices; either conform to the law or change it through the democratic process. Societal norms prevented the latter so the former option was taken. The Gay Rights movement finds itself in this same position today and, as in California, it is the people who decide what is allowed within the definition of societal norms. All the posts; either for or against the legalization of gay marriage, are a part of our constitutionally provided right of freedom of speech. It is two sides of an issue being debated in a public forum. Where these posts descend into mudslinging and bigotry is where they become nothing more than childish rhetoric. I for one hope that we will ultimately outgrow our prejudices and vote for equality under the law for all of our citizens. Whether you agree with their lifestyle or not, that is every Americans lawful right.

For those who wallow in the self-righteous condemnation of the supposed sin of homosexuality please show me where Christ teaches bigotry and intolerance. In scrutinizing Christ’s words found in Matthew 22:39 nowhere does he say, “Love your neighbors except for …” In Matthew 7:1 he says "judge not lest ye be judged". In John 8:7 Christ admonishes, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone”. Anyway you twist it, Christ’s message was one of love; love of God, of self and of your fellow man. With that in mind ask yourself; do my words and deeds reflect the love and compassion that Christ taught or do they reflect a narrow minded bias against someone different than myself?

In my mind, any church, mormon or otherwise, exists primarily to help its members get closer to God and creation and to thereby find peace and harmony in their lives. The fact that the mormon church ultimately falls short of this is why I have looked elsewhere for that peace and harmony.


This is a very good post. More folks of all religions would do well to read this. They should have read it at the Glen Beck rally. Thanks, rc52


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rc52
Post  Post subject: Re: Finding the Truth  |  Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:42 am
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Elphaba - I have read one of Sylvia Browns books and seen her on television several times. Your personal experience seems to dovetail with my personal observations; another false prophet. Her book was 90% what I call filler. In other words, just mindless fodder used to expand the pages until they could justify selling it as a book. Yet, she is inexplicably popular. I will have to check out the website for certain. Even in the face of all this (and I do find her intolerably self-important) I have to admit, I have found a few tidbits worth contemplating. The foremost of which is her statement, "In God’s presence there are magnificent houses of worship everywhere, with all religions shared and celebrated.”

This makes a certain amount of sense to me and seems to be supported by other more "spiritually" based people. In my opinion, people can lose a "gift" when they stop using it to help people and start using to exploit them for personal gain. After all greed is one of the 7 deadly sins.


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Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: Finding the Truth  |  Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:53 am
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Sylvia told the parents of Shawn Hornsby that their son was dead. He wasn't. He was found several years later.

She told the parents of another family that their child had been sold into white slavery. They hadn't been. Her body was eventually found and she'd died at the time of her kidnapping.

One woman talked about her husband dying on 9/11 and Sylvia cut her off before she could finish and went on and on about the spirits of those who'd died in the World Trade Centers, only to have the woman say, "Oh, no. It had nothing to do with those events. It was just hard to lose him on a day with so much tragedy." Sylvia got furious, feeling she'd been made a fool of because she immediately jumped to the conclusion that the woman's husband had died in the Towers or on one of the planes.

She's a dangerous woman, and evil as far as I'm concerned. She has given medical advice when she has no such training. She prays on the suffering and the vulnerable by feeding them her crap, causing a lot of unnecessary hurt.

I've read stories of people who have gone on her retreats. When they've approached her to talk to her, she's had her people speed her away in her wheelchair so that they couldn't waylay her.

When she was on Montel, she was often nasty to people. She actively threatens to destroy anyone who opposes her. She's not a nice woman at all.

Go here. There are lots of links at the left:

http://stopsylvia.com/articles/

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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balaam
Post  Post subject: Re: Finding the Truth  |  Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:00 pm
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2nd Presidency

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:04 pm
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Location: Spirit Prison (i.e., surrounded by Mormonites)

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elphaba wrote:
Thanks Rainfeather! I just read a lot of stuff on that site and I have to agree with what Robert Lancaster has to say. I found the interview with her first husband particularly enlightening. There is not a shred of spirituality about that woman and yet she writes all of these "spiritual" books.
Here's the site for anyone who is interested:

http://stopsylvia.com/home/


Wow. Did I ever tell you all about my Sylvia Browne experience? I can't remember if I posted that before. I probably did.

Long story short...I could do what she does. She is an obvious fake. DW believes in her still, but seeing Sylvia in real life convinced me she is a fraud.

_________________
"It's easy to see without lookin' too far that not much is really sacred."

Bob Dylan


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