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questions1
  Post  Post subject: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:14 pm
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I've been in a relationship with my Mormon boyfriend for seven months, and I care for him very much, but I know his faith isn't true for me (I'm raised Catholic, now born-again Christian)and i'm thinking about ending it. The problem is, I've gotten so caught up in all of the falsities about Mormonism that I'm scared for him. Knowing as much as I've learned worries me and causes me a lot of stress. Even though I know we don't have a romantic future together (he's leaving for his mission in the spring) I still care about him very much and I want him to know that he is already personally loved by and saved in Christ.

I have thought about giving him C.S. Lewis' book Mere Christianity, only to explain what I believe and that I'm not going to convert. (He keeps telling me that he "still has hope"). I'm not optimistic enough to think that this will open his eyes to all that's not true in Mormonism, and that's not the main reason I'd give him the book, I don't want to convert him, but by slim chance that it does sew the seeds of doubt towards Mormonism, I feel hesitant.

Part of me wants to show him that he can have a relationship with Jesus, the other part of me knows that its not my place because if I succeeded, it would destroy his relationship with his family. This seems selfish. Should I selfishly save him from a life of burden, or should I let him continue living a happy lie?

I don't know what the right thing is to do.



(Also, if you have any problem with how I've stated something please let me know so that I can further explain it or understand why it wasn't correct of me to say)


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questions1
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:15 pm
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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:40 pm
God of Poly-Folly

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Hello questions1,
You really can expect little possible change so you might as well hit him hard with the Google facts if he answers that he loves truth and that he wishes whatever it is God might have in store for him.

Then maybe ask him if he enjoys debating with God the way Robert Duvall does in a movie The Apostle.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{ If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~ Stevie Wonder }
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:54 am
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I agree it looks like a dead end relationship. You really can't force anyone to see anything they aren't willing or ready to accept. LDS do talk about Jesus & say He loves them- in fact they believe they're more chosen & special than all the other faiths it's just not the same theology as you're used to. I think you'll be frustrated unless something happens to cause him to be dissatisfied & wish to not serve his mission & really question his own faith independently of you. You ever hear the saying- you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink? This really applies w/ any unwanted evangelism as well. I chased after my born-again minister coworker because I desperately wanted the closeness & reassurance of unconditional love of Jesus her poems in her cubicle suggested she had. I pestered her w/ questions & sought her out for lunch & it worked! LDS cyberstalked me in hopes of reactivating me & I fled. See the difference- motivation- mine! And no, I didn't have a crush on my coworker- I just desperately wanted the spiritual fruit I saw in her life! And, I don't think it's selfish at all- just misguided unless he's really interested. Otherwise he could get offended & flee like I did my LDS pursuer or just simply ignore you while politely pretending to listen to you like I often do.

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


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teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:39 am
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My suggestion is to move on to something better for yourself, as unwashing or laundering out, a TBM is a time consuming process, no question about that. How much time are you wiling to devote to this effort? It is possible, look at all the folks leaving this allegorical organization..including you! Is this guy worth your time and effort? Only you can determine that for yourself.

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poliisi
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:29 pm
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teoma2 wrote:
My suggestion is to move on to something better for yourself, as unwashing or laundering out, a TBM is a time consuming process, no question about that. How much time are you wiling to devote to this effort? It is possible, look at all the folks leaving this allegorical organization..including you! Is this guy worth your time and effort? Only you can determine that for yourself.

Very good advice there. Some time ago I asked my wife whether she would be willing to start a relationship with me or another mormon guy if she had know at the time everything that she knows now. The answer was pretty straigt "No!" as she knows now how badly mormon men are taught to treat their women and how difficult it is for the men to unlearn those bad habits.

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“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche


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BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:53 pm
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Exactly poliisi- white TBM LDS males don't need to be told by outsiders they're special- they're getting their egos adequately fed by LDS by being told they're on the track to Godhood to the point of abusing their authority! It's only women, minorities, divorced, childless, doubters, sinners like me & my ex who are marginalized or have been shunned that are desperate to hear that Jesus loves them anyway. The TBM's are way too proud to even listen.

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"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


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markrichards
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:35 pm
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questions 1 said, "
Quote:
Part of me wants to show him that he can have a relationship with Jesus, the other part of me knows that its not my place because if I succeeded, it would destroy his relationship with his family. This seems selfish. Should I selfishly save him from a life of burden, or should I let him continue living a happy lie?

I don't know what the right thing is to do.
"

Herein lies the problem, do you try and 'convert' him and destroy his family. I have the opposite situation, only it was a girl. (Short story). I was divorced by my wife, ordered to go to a different ward and shunned by the mormons. I could not speak, pray, offer testimony or hold any position of authority but I could pay tithes. I walked away. I decided to live it up and wandered from speak easy to speak easy, picking up strumpets and having a good time. After all, I was sterile, so I did not have to worry about some gal saying I was a 'daddy.' One day, the daughter of the bishop that counseled my wife to divorce me knocked on my door. I figured this was the 'why are you not coming to church/paying tithes visit. It was a little more. I will brush over the details save it to say, she became less and less of a mormon and was having serious doubts about the god of the mormon. Krissie would disappear on Sunday, but that afternoon, there she was bottle of wine in hand. While this was happening I started going to a church and once my little secret was out (I was an ex-mormon), I was inundated with all sorts of anti-mormon books, tracks, magazines, tapes. No doubt these were given to me by well meaning individuals who were concerned about my salvation. I am sure you are concerned about this young man's salvation; you would not be posting here otherwise.

How I got Krissie (her name) to go to church with me was I just did not bring up in any way, shape or form anything about her religion. I kept on prodding, "Come on....you will like it." O.K., I will confess, I was not the best Christian at that time (maybe none are), but I did not hit her on all the anti mormon books. Things fell apart when some idiot said something to the both of us at church one Sunday which ticked her off and myself as well.

We still remained friends, she even showed up at my house at the end of her two marriages. At one point during her second marriage, she showed up at my front door, tears in her eyes. Krissie wanted to leave him. (under her breath she wanted to move in with me). I counseled her to stay married (her second marriage was a ready made family situation) she really liked the children...she just could not stand the husband. When their situation turned violent (he beat her bad enough to require a two day hospital stay), I helped her move out. After all these years we are hanging around again, as of this date. She has not darkened the door of a ward in three years. On Sunday, we go to church (Fremont Presbyterian in Sacto). She likes my church. If we had done what she wanted to do back in 1985, her relationship with her family would have been destroyed. That is what will happen if that young man leaves his church, he will loose all friends, family, etc. Then again, maybe they are not too good of friends to want to argue over religion.

What I am trying to say is be a friend. I have problems with those anti-mormon books; they only serve to enrich the authors and I think they would just harden his heart. Once he starts reading some of the mystical things like the temple, symbols, token and its roots in paganism, he could just shut down. C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity is o.k., but I am sure if he read it, he would look at it through mormon 'eyes,' not as a Christian or even an agnostic.

On the other hand, mormon's have been brought up that their Jesus is somehow superior to the Jesus of the Christian. The BOM types, when penned down do not consider themselves Christian, they may 'say' they are christian, but loudly proclaim they are "Latter Day Saints.: Mormon's have a latter and better revelation, that is the loggerhead you face. If he stays within the lds fold, he is on the fast track to become a god, get his own planet, take his wives and have eternal sex. Whereas I, I am sure, having known of so great a salvation am going to be cast out into the outer-darkness, or worse, sentenced to the terrestrial heaven and be bald. (I will not explain what that is, but other ex-mormon's know.)

It did not take me too long to forget all my lds upbringing. I was born into the mormon 'church', did all the priesthood stuff/endowments/temple work and my marriage was sealed in the temple. So I speak from some old experience. Even when I was attending a Methodist Church, mormon 'theology' crept in, although without that constant re-enforcement by lds'er, I was able to push it out. LDS 'theology, looking back is 'brainwashing.' Similar to Herr Goebells (Hitlers Minister of Propaganda) who said, "If you tell a lie long enough, and loud enough, you soon believe it."


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Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:54 pm
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Thanks for the honor, Questions1, of asking us your question. Without contradicting what MarkRichards said, I don't think it would hurt to give him any C. S. Lewis book. "Mere Christianity" is one of his simplest, and I believe it explains a few terms - I've forgotten which - perhaps grace the nature of God? - in ways that might open your friend's mind a little wider. Even if he closes the book, some of the light will have snuck into his own brain.

My first "anti-mormon" book - it wasn't really anti-mormon, it was just a critique of mormonism - but mormonism are in the demeaning habit of calling criticism "anti-mormonism" - was Arthur Budvarson's "The Book of Mormon - True or False?" It did absolutely nothing to convert me. But it made me aware of some things. Eventually, as I came to understand things better, I recalled that book, and was grateful I had read it. It made sense, but I could not see that until my mind had opened further. My point is, even if C. S. Lewis does not convince your friend, it will plant a positive seed. "I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow."


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questions1
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:38 pm
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Thank you all so much for responding. I've been really struggling with this situation and I didn't know who to turn to for advice that would understand. I'm taking into consideration everything that you've said and am trying to be politically correct on how I respons. I can only hope for the best right now.
All of your advice is reassuring in some form or another, along with knowing that there are people out there who understand.
If anyone has anything more to say, I really appreciate any advice I can get.

To be clear, i am going to end our relationship. I know about the abusive relationship that this could turn into and I'm not going to be brainwashed either. He's brought up marriage and I've explained that I don't believe it's in our future. I'm just going to be gentle about it because I do hope that we will remain friends someday.

Also, would it be in vain to ask him to come to a worship service with me sometime instead of giving him the book I mentioned, or to do both? I've been to LDS Sunday services and praise seems very absent from the routine. Would this be too uncomfortable for a TBM and completely shut him away?


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markrichards
  Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:36 pm
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abindi wrote:
Quote:
but mormonism are in the demeaning habit of calling criticism "anti-mormonism"


I do stand 'guilty' I will come up with a better term. Then again, I am not an english scholar nor a good writer. I leave that job to my fellow teacher friend. {:-D


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joseph's myth
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:20 am
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questions1 wrote:
...I really appreciate any advice I can get.

To be clear, i am going to end our relationship. I know about the abusive relationship that this could turn into and I'm not going to be brainwashed either. He's brought up marriage and I've explained that I don't believe it's in our future. I'm just going to be gentle about it because I do hope that we will remain friends someday.

Also, would it be in vain to ask him to come to a worship service with me sometime instead of giving him the book I mentioned, or to do both? I've been to LDS Sunday services and praise seems very absent from the routine. Would this be too uncomfortable for a TBM and completely shut him away?

The LDS church is no longer touted as the one true church by the leadership of Mormonism but don't try and tell any Mormon priesthood holder about it.

_________________
God of Poly-Folly Folly

{ If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~ Stevie Wonder }
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944
.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944


God of Poly-Folly Folly


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BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:44 am
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You could invite him to a worship service or give him the book. But, he won't be open to actually converting if he's TBM- the main way you could convince him is to say it'll help him understand his prospective converts better so he can baptize more people on his mission. Still, due to his priesthood powers & women being nothing, you'll lack authority. Ending the relationship & staying friends is asking for trouble- it leaves the door open & gives false hope for a future. Feeding the feelings is unwise. You'll have better chances for a future w/ someone else if you're emotionally free of him. As far as the future, the best way to put it is in terms of you two not being equally yoked & compatible, as opposed to the he's bad/ you're great approach. Remind him his own leaders discourage marrying outside the faith & you think they're right, no matter how you feel about each other, as opposed to mentioning your fears of him possibly becoming abusive later. The apostles speak out against abuse of priesthood authority, but it still occurs alot. Also, on beliefnet.com they have a short article "5 ways to get over an ex" you might like. I hope this helps. Really, when did the LDS stop teaching the LDS is the 1 & only true church- that's a new 1 on me joseph's myth's? And, why has my former youth leader been harassing me if the party line has changed?

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


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productofchoice
Post  Post subject: Re: Mormon Boyfriend  |  Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:17 pm
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Hi Question1,

Welcome.

My thoughts are that he's a young-un and at this point he probably is ignorant of the temple ceremony (probably hasn't gotten endowments yet). He's not likely aware of much of the crazy stuff that brigham young did. He's not likely aware of many of the odd things in the Book of Mormon (elephants, horses, coins, silk, steel, DNA issues, language issues, Anachronistic statements, etc). He's not likely aware of the Mountain Meadows Massacre nor Blood atonement. He's not likely aware of Joseph and his many wifes nor the seer stone. He's not likely that stained by the inequality of men and women and may not even expect to have many polygamous wives in the eternities.

I'm guessing based on how I remember things back when I was a young lad. These things are played down in the current LDS church. They seem to be trying to moderate. I guess my point is that you're seeing some extreme things WRT how messed up he likely is.

You may be right about how thigns will go with his family if he ditches the LDS church ... However at 40, I wish I was told long ago. I wish I had made that transition when I was young and was able to live my life without the weight of the striving and self condemnation. I would have loved to have had Peace and Rest and Grace in my life. It would have changed how I loved my X and my kids and my current wife. It would have been less conditional love and more unconditional love. It would have been years less tithing when I really didn't have the money to spare.

Changing gears.

Now you said you've been to his church. And you've probably been given a Book of Mormon. Why do you fret giving him a book and/or inviting him to your church? If he's unwilling to go with you or bend your way ... that speaks to the quality of y'alls relationship. He's saying he's right and you're wrong. He's unwilling to bend or even investigate.

You could make the case that attending such meetings and getting a better understanding of other churchs would help him relate to the people he wants to go teach. If he bites into that, you might start seeing how he handles some of the tough questions ... all to prepare him for a mission. You might find where the Book of Mormon talks about elephants and silk and horses and ask how that's possible?

Most people realize that it's a lie when they do their own research in the quiet of their room when nobody is looking ... because defenses are down. If he goes back to his room and does real study and questioning, you've done a good thing.

Pray for him. If you quote the Bible, quote the words of Jesus ... those are harder to reject.

Peace

_________________
I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17


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