View unanswered posts
View active topics
It is currently Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:53 pm


Author Message
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will come  |  Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:04 am
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
That’s right, the end will certainly come. The reason I’m posting this is because many, if not most people on this board will not have noticed the world’s end. But, nevertheless it most certainly will have ended: Ron Weinland’s world will end in about 8 days when he, taking his place as one of the Book of Revelation’s Two Witnesses will go to Jerusalem to be killed and raised to life 3 and one half days later.

Ron will then be caught up into heavenly glory as the world watches on. Then, Christ will return on the 27th of this month of May, 2012. Yet, if all this does not happen, the world will come to an end anyway! Not for us, but for Ron and his followers!

For the last four years Ron has been living large off of the double tithes and offerings of his faithful believers and now pay day is almost here. Ron, it’s almost time for you to pay.

Your Day of Judgment is almost here!
Quote:
Ronald Weinland - Author of “The Prophesied End-Time” & “2008 - God’s Final Witness”
As readers of this site know, May 27, 2012, is the time that I have stated as being the date Jesus Christ will return as King of kings over all government on this earth. http://www.ronaldweinland.com/

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:30 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
For those who are interested:

Ron Weinland is leading a movement which is a branch from the World Wide Church of God founded by the late Herbert W. Armstrong. Weinland claims that he is the head of the only true church.
Quote:
“The Church [Armstrong’s Church] that was scattered, due to the apostasy, has fragmented into over 500 different organizations, yet only one has been reestablished as God’s true Church. (Ron Weinland)

Ron Weinland holds the title of “Pastor over God’s Church,” he holds the position of “One of Revelation’s Two Witnesses and spokesman for both;” his wife is the silent witness.

The man constantly berates those who do not believe he is who he claims to be by claiming those who refuse to follow him are filled with pride and that they are deceived.

I cannot fathom anyone on the planet that is more filled with pride than Ron Weinland; and, not only that, it is clearly he who is deceived.

This is the first thing I have written about Ron because frankly I didn’t believe his claims were worth writing about. But, now that we are down to Ron’s final 11 day countdown to the World’s end and his 8 day countdown to his own death in the streets of Jerusalem; I thought I would write something about him.

I have read both of his books and all of his articles over the last four years. His written works bored me to tears. The man knows so little about bible prophecy and how to interpret it.

Now I’m wondering what will happen next? I doubt Ron will admit he was wrong; last time Armageddon failed to come, back in 2008, Ron started the 3.5 year count-down over.

The First Trumpet of Revelation sounded again at the new time he set for it. I’m thinking he will probably push off Armageddon another 3.5 years. Perhaps his followers will ramp up their giving now that they really are facing the final hour “for soon the night will come when no man can work.”

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:23 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:23 am
Posts: 7887
Location: D&C 121:39

Offline
Well, I happen to know that the two witnesses are two Mormon missionaries sent to Israel.
I was told in the 1960s, that two missionaries had already been selected to go there. I was told this again in the 1970s. And again in the 1980s. So there are probably half a dozen missionaries, maybe a dozen by now, prepared to go there and be those witnesses.

Ah, the Mormon myth-provoking rumor mill.
It's a beautiful thing.


Top
teoma2
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:38 pm
God of Mythbusters

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:30 am
Posts: 4805
Location: Kolobian Lowlands

Offline
The more the merrier. By the way, where are the those three Nephites when you need them?

_________________
"When authority masquerades as a power, a simple question will unmask it."

"Just because you think, feel, or believe something is true, doesn't make it true!"

"The doubt of your faith, is not God testing you, but truth trying to emerge and free you."


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:18 am
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
On Ron's site today:
Quote:
The world could not endure a nuclear war that would last for 3 ½ years. Long before such a period of time would elapse, mankind would not exist on earth. A nuclear war cannot last for three months, nor for three weeks. God, in all His mercy, is controlling the final time before He will allow mankind to begin such a war—a war of man’s own doing.

God’s timing is based on the day He has set for the return of His Son as world ruler. God will allow mankind to begin his final war, but He will also quickly stop it. The reason should be obvious! “Why” massive destruction from end-time events has not yet begun is due to the reality of how massive such a war will become as soon as it starts. Once a single nuclear device is detonated, and it will happen very soon now, who will refrain themselves from retaliating? Who will be the first to limit the response of their attack once the cycle begins?

It is because of such destructive power in the hands of mankind that God has shown that if He did not intervene quickly, once such a conflagration begins, mankind would destroy itself. That is exactly what God is going to do. He will cut short the war that man begins, and He will do so on May 27th, which is also the day Jesus Christ returns.http://www.ronaldweinland.com/

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
smartenough
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:04 pm
High Priest

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 322
Location: New England

Offline
I bet May 27,2012 will go down as one of those failed or missed end of the world days. It is just my opinion that the world as the human race knows or the existence of planet Earth is not going to end on 27 May, 2012.


Top
Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:45 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:23 am
Posts: 7887
Location: D&C 121:39

Offline
The Moonies are expecting January 13, 2013, to be a special day,
but I haven't been able to uncover what will be special about it.


Top
smartenough
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:24 pm
High Priest

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 322
Location: New England

Offline
I doubt any day that is predicted by either the Moonies or the LDS church. When the end of the world happens or giant space ship arrives, no one knows.


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:03 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Hey Smartenough and Abinadi,

Here is a basic rundown of Ron Weinland’s prophecies:

He claimed that Revelation’s trumpets began sounding back in 2008 and that at some point in 2008, 1/3 of earth’s vegetation would be burned up. He was so certain of the timing and his interpretation of this prophecy that he said he should be considered a false prophet, if in 2008, I believe the month the plague was suppose to happen was March, it did not occur. He went on to say if it did not happen he would admit he was wrong and discontinue his ministry as God’s witness, etc.

Well, here is what Ron did to save the day: Ron had all of his followers pray and fast for two days and because of that God pushed off the plagues so more souls could come to the gospel.

Yet, Ron still maintained that in the months leading up to Armageddon mankind, as well as 1/3 of the earth’s vegetation, would suffer terrible plagues. Now we are down to about one week left before Armageddon and nothing that Ron described has happened. Yet, he is sill claiming that Armageddon is 10 days away! We should have seen 1/3 of the trees burn 5 months ago!

Also:

This is the same prophet that assured us that no new president would take office because Armageddon would come first. Yet, we did get a new president after Bush. He also cursed about 20 leaders of movements which he calls the “scattered flock;” and, as one of Revelations two witnesses he used his power to cause them to die suddenly. That was in 2008 and not one of them has died yet.

Is it me, or does Ron not seem to be a credible prophet? One thing is certain: Ron is the most important man in the world, in his own mind!
What I am curious about, is: “Will the major networks even mention his name on the nightly news, this coming May 27th?”

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:56 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Ok, since I started this thread and seeing there are only nine days left until the supposed return of Christ, I will keep the thread going until then and maybe a bit longer if Ron has anything more to say about his failed prophecies.

Here is another short section from his website about what is going on right now:
Quote:
God’s Final Witness
“In two short months, the world will be thrust into the seventh and final phase of this end-time. This period will be marked by well over fifty percent of all Bible prophecy being fulfilled.
This posting cannot cover all the news that is flooding upon the world scene that screams out at a world that is largely asleep. Catastrophic events are about to be unleashed and very, very few hear the warning cries.
God first revealed to His two end-time witnesses, His final two prophets that His Son would return to this earth in a second-coming as King of kings on May 27, 2012.” (Time is running out - http://ronaldweinland.com/?p=102)

Obviously, since we are down to about a week before Armageddon we have already experienced 7/8ths of the last “two short months.” I have yet to notice plagues of biblical proportions as spelled out in Revelation “unleashed.” I wonder if any of Ron Weinland’s followers are starting to doubt him?

Rich


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:50 am
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Quote:
Seven Days for the Five Months of Torment
From “2008 — God’s Final Witness” pages 125 and 126:
At the same time all these events come together at the sounding of the Fifth Trumpet, there will be an initial period of time (five months) when much human suffering will continue as a result of the first four trumpets. ……. Those of the scattered Church of God, who are tormented during this five-month period, will suffer greatly for their stubborn pride and continued defiance against God….. This five-month period will also be paralleled by millions of people who will begin to repent and seek God.
http://ronaldweinland.info/falseprophet/

The site linked above is a blog covering Ron’s countdown to the end. Is it possible the 5 months of suffering Ron speaks of will occur sometime between now and May 27th? With only about a week left, to me, it doesn’t seem likely: it could be because of my “stubborn pride,” or maybe I’m having trouble making Ron’s math fit?

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
smartenough
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:16 am
High Priest

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 322
Location: New England

Offline
I think you are normal Rich. I just think that this guys math is a little strange as well.


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:30 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
smartenough wrote:
I think you are normal Rich. I just think that this guys math is a little strange as well.

Smartenough!

Obviously, this man is suffering from delusions of grander.
Because, when someone thinks that they, and they alone, are God’s spokesman — One of Revelation's two witnesses and his wife is the other witness; but God insisted that she remain silent, making Ron the spokesman for both; obviously the man is suffering from deception on a grand scale.

What I find interesting is all of Ron’s followers, who are backing Ron’s insanity, thinking that they will receive a huge heavenly reward!

Many have too much invested to give up on their own delusions.

I wrote an article on a similar movement; for those who may be interested, here is a link: http://richkelsey.org/apocalypse_now.htm

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:30 am
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Another quote from Ron’s site:
Quote:
“The year 2008 marked the last of God’s warnings to mankind and the beginning in a countdown of the final three and one-half years of man’s self-rule that will end by May 27, 2012.
On December 14, 2008, the First Trumpet of the Seventh Seal of the Book of Revelation sounded, which announced the beginning collapse of the economy of the United States and great destruction that will follow. The next three trumpets will result in the total collapse of the United States, and once the Fifth Trumpet sounds the world will be thrust into WW III. …
Many of the prophecies of the Seven Thunders are being fulfilled and will continue to increase in strength and frequency throughout this final three and one-half years of man’s self-rule on earth.
As these events unfold, the world will increasingly become aware of the authenticity of the words in this book [2008 – God’s Final Witness] and realize that Ronald Weinland has been sent by God as His end-time prophet.” (http://ronaldweinland.com/?page_id=7)

Quote:
“Once the Second, Third, and Fourth Trumpet have sounded, the United States will collapse as a world power. When the Fifth Trumpet sounds, WWIII will be ushered upon the scene and will cause the death of billions. Then on the last day of this great tribulation Jesus Christ will return and intervene to stop mankind from destroying himself.” (http://ronaldweinland.com/?page_id=5)

According to Ron; Revelation’s Fifth trumpet will sound sometime before this coming Saturday at 6 pm Jerusalem time. He now believes that Armageddon may only last a few hours.

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:16 am
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
What people may say about Ron Weinland on May 27th:
Quote:
Oh, yeah. He's dying, I think. He hates all this. He hates it! ... He reads poetry out loud, all right. And a voice...he likes you because you're still alive. He's got plans for you. No, I'm not gonna help you. You're gonna help him, man. You're gonna help him. I mean, what are they gonna say when he's gone? 'Cause he dies when it dies, when it dies, he dies! What are they gonna say about him? He was a kind man? He was a wise man? He had plans? He had wisdom? And am I gonna be the one that's gonna set them straight? Look at me! Look at me! Wrong!
I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's, he's a great man. I should have been a pair of filthy rags scuttling across the floors of silent seas…

Edited to say that the quote is from a movie about a man who went insane and thought he was God’s mouthpiece; the movie also has a title that seems to fit Ron’s situation — Apocalypse Now

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
smartenough
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:27 pm
High Priest

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 322
Location: New England

Offline
If I remember correctly, several other things must happen before the rapture actually happens. David Jeremiah had a series on the Book of Revelations and David Jeremiah did talk about the rapture and the rule of the Anti-Christ.

I cannot remember everything that was said about the end of time by David Jeremiah but I do know that the City of Babylon needs to be rebuilt so it can be home to the AntiChrist and I do know that the Temple in Israel will need to be rebuilt as well.

The only thing left of the Temple in Israel is its foundation. The City of Babylon needs to be rebuilt since the City of Bablyon now sits in a state of decay.

By the way, I think that Ron Weinland's prophecys will not come true but only time will tell.


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:13 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
smartenough wrote:
If I remember correctly, several other things must happen before the rapture actually happens. David Jeremiah had a series on the Book of Revelations and David Jeremiah did talk about the rapture and the rule of the Anti-Christ. ...

By the way, I think that Ron Weinland's prophecys will not come true but only time will tell.


Smartenough,

I have studied the Book of Revelation since my early twenties. I think I have paid my dues as a student of the bible whose main focus in life has been upon the Book of Revelation and other Old Testament prophetic scripture.

I find Revelation fascinating; and, I am very familiar with passages throughout the text which have references to time. I am convinced that much of Revelation’s text is symbolic, meaning that we will not actually see 1/3rd of earth’s trees burn, or, a burning mountain hitting earth’s oceans. I believe this is figurative language depicting people and nations in turmoil. Yet, what we should see is the man of sin (Antichrist) and his false prophet arise on the world scene long before the final week before Armageddon. There are other events spelled out in the book as well, such as a build up of armies on Israel’s borders. Remember when Iraq attacked Kuwait; the US spent over a month building up armies on Iraq’s borders before the war began. Following is a small section of a book about Revelation that you may find interesting:

C h a p t e r 1 SEALS AND HORSES

The word apocalypse is Greek for the English word “revelation.” But what does the word revelation mean?
rev•e•la•tion (re˘ vé-la¯ ‘shen) noun
1. a. The act of revealing or disclosing. b. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
2. Theology. A manifestation of divine will or truth.
3. Revelation (re˘vé-la¯ ‘shen) Abbr. Rev., Rv. A book of the Bible.

Middle English revelacion, from Old French revelation, from Latin revclâtiô, revclâtiôn-, from revclâtus past participle of revclâre, to reveal.
The act of disclosing, uncovering—making known some¬thing that is hidden—this is what revelation means; this uncov¬ering of hidden prophecy is what the book of Revelation is all about. One looking into Revelation’s pages should come away enlightened. Yet reading that book for most people only leaves them confused: why is that?
Many, after reading Revelation, come away from the experi¬ence with questions: Will the plagues be literal, with the oceans turning to blood and the sun scorching men with great heat, or could these illustrations be figurative, having a different meaning entirely? Surely literal fire will not be coming out of the mouths of the two witnesses.
Bible prophecy is always easier to understand when looking back on it rather than forward to it. In this and the following chapters, I will offer possible models of Revelation’s plagues, explaining what we might expect to see.

Revelation’s Scroll with Seven Seals

“Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, ‘Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?’ But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, ‘Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.’” (Rev. 5:1-5)

Back in the time when the Book of Revelation was penned, there were no printing presses. Documents were handwritten on papyrus and rolled up as scrolls. Revelation’s scroll represents a mortgage agreement. It was the custom in that period to seal the scroll of the mortgaged property so that no one could tamper with the deed. Another scroll would accompany the sealed scroll, and people would refer to it concerning the contents of the sealed scroll. The sealed scroll would be opened only at the time the property was transferred. The new owner would then inspect the real deed and make sure everything was in order.

The scroll in Revelation 5 represents the deed to the earth. Whoever holds it has the right to rule. When the last seal is loosed and the scroll is opened, the new owner will take possession of his property. God is shown symbolically sitting on the throne; He has possession of the scroll. Jesus is found worthy to take the scroll from the Father’s hand and open it.

When the Apostle John experienced his vision on the Isle of Patmos, he was told that a mighty lion with stellar ancestry had tri-umphed! So John probably expected to see some powerful figure take hold of the scroll. This would not be the case. What John saw next was a lamb looking as if it had been slain, clutching an antique scroll as old as the earth itself, with ancient writings upon it within and without, and seven wax seals holding it closed. This feeble lamb tore open the final seal.

Why would the powerful Lion of Judah now have the appear¬ance of a slain sacrificial lamb? Because God has taken the frail things of this world and made them strong; through death, that lamb became more powerful than any lion. Jesus, taking on the role of a sacrificial lamb, “purchased men.”

As Jesus begins breaking open each of Revelation’s seven wax seals, a series of events come to pass. The first four seals send four horsemen riding through the earth, bringing in famine and death and quickly establishing Antichrist’s regime. The fifth seal sets up the killing machine Antichrist will use upon Christians. The sixth seal denotes great apostasy from the faith. The seventh seal contains seven trumpets—following is a series of seven trumpet blasts. This is symbolic of heaven’s battle and intended victory, each blast having an impact on earth. The last three trumpet blasts are called woes. The seventh trumpet, or final woe, contains the bowl judgments. As the final bowl is poured out, Armageddon takes place.
In the first place, we might ask why should something Jesus is doing in heaven initiate a demonic uprising on earth? Christ is shown opening Revelation’s mortgage scroll (the deed to the earth). He is about to reclaim the domain Adam forfeited to Satan. Jesus is redeeming the earth with all the souls that have faith in his atone¬ment. As the new owner, Christ is opening the deed to make sure everything is in order. But everything is not in order! The whole earth is filled with wickedness, and this shall not stand. Satan, re¬alizing that time is short, musters all of his forces into action and quickly brings about his final conquest. However, as Jesus loosens the last wax seal of the scroll, Satan is no longer triumphant over mankind. In a last-ditch effort to thwart Christ’s victory, Satan brings the world to the brink of destruction during the battle of Armageddon—at which time Christ returns to the Mount of Olives and saves the world.

Four Horses Bringing In a Brave New World

What does a horse symbolize? Strength! Battle! The ability to cover large distances! What do horsemen do? They ride. Revelation’s horses have been waiting at the starting gate for a very long time. When they and their riders journey through the land, they will take the world by storm. These horsemen are illustrations of fallen spirits who have been granted power before the courts of God to influence men and bring pestilence and death upon earth. The deception these angels manifest may also be a sign to the Middle Eastern people that their deliverer/messiah is at hand.
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing” (2 Thess. 2:9–10).

Seal One—the First Horse Rides

“I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.” (Rev. 6:1–2)

A white horse: what better color could have been used to depict a conqueror? When this first seal is broken, John hears a clap of thunder; could this signify a sudden conquest? The words “and he was given a crown” are noteworthy, for Satan has a crown to give. He has dominion over “all the kingdoms of the world.” For example: in the Gospel of Luke, Satan tempted Christ with his authority to rule the planet. He said to Jesus,
“I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to” (Luke 4:6).

The rider of the white horse “held a bow.” This symbolism de¬notes weaponry and battle. The text itself states that this horseman “rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.” This depicts nations being overthrown during the time this horse rides. The Scriptures mention
“the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming,”(1 John 4:3 NIV)

This is a reference to demonic activity. We have fallen angels in the world today; they are already at work influencing men. There are also angels so wicked that God has them bound until the righteous are sealed; then those spirits will be let loose to torment mankind.

Seal Two—the Second Horse Rides

“When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.” (Rev. 6:3–4)

Apparently the color red was given to this horse to depict blood! The large sword this horseman receives is a symbolic illustration of the massive force the rider will manifest upon earth. What does a sword do? It kills! Men wield weapons of death in this world; the rider of the red horse has been given power to influ¬ence mankind to kill one another, possibly bringing the earth into a state of crisis, setting the stage for Antichrist’s entrance. The man of sin will probably come upon the world scene hiding under a false cloak as a man of peace, a savior—an influential world leader who could very well unite the Islamic and Jewish people for a season.

The Powers of This Dark World

In the book of Ephesians, Satan and his demon forces are called
“the powers of this dark world” (Eph. 6:12)

Darkness demands that Satan’s subjects lack light. The devil’s fol-lowers have little truth to guide them in their resolve. As the devil restrains the light of truth from his followers, there is little threat of them seeing what a detrimental position they are holding. They are blind to the truth that the evil one is lord in their hearts.

What wise person walking in the light of God’s understand¬ing would ever choose Satan as lord? If all the evidence were laid out in plain view, that one would run from the hideous beast he was in league with to the loving arms of the heavenly Father. That’s why the devil surrounds his subjects in darkness. Satan blinds their minds, as it is written,
“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel” (2 Cor. 4:4).

The devil reigns through deception.

When the four horsemen ride through the earth bringing about changes in the attitudes of mankind, they will accomplish their goals quickly. Many will be unaware that evil forces are at work in them.

Seal Three—the Third Horse Rides

“When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine.’” (Rev. 6:5–6)

Black may represent spiritual darkness. The pair of scales is figurative of the coming judg¬ment. If one were to put a day’s pay on one side of the balance scale this horseman is holding and look at the other side of the scale, this verse shows that one would get little food in return. This third horseman brings pestilence and famine into the land.

To understand what these horsemen are, we should keep in mind that “power was given unto” them. Remember how Satan pleaded before the courts of God to smite Job and his house and was given power to do so? The devil and his angels received power to cause fire to come down from heaven and destroy Job’s sheep and also those tending them. The devil also influenced the Sabeans and the Chaldeans to rob Job’s livestock and kill Job’s servants. Satan even had the power to cause a violent wind to destroy Job’s eldest son’s house, kill¬ing all those inside.

At the very time Jesus is opening the seals on the mortgage scroll to inspect the claim, Satan will be lashing out with great force. This planet could suffer massive environmental disasters as a result of these horses. It’s possible we could see holy wars in which men could become crazed enough to pollute their enemies’ cities or water supplies with nuclear or biochemical contamination.

Seal Four—the Fourth Horse Rides

When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:7–8)

This spotted, pale gray horse is symbolic of a lingering death. “The wild beasts of the earth” may represent the Antichrist’s reli¬gious and political systems these horsemen establish. The govern¬ment under Antichrist will kill with hunger: anyone who refuses to take the Antichrist’s mark will not be allowed to buy food. This Antichrist system will also kill with death—which means eternal separation from God. It’s a sick spiritual state brought about through deception and sin. Surely observing Antichrist’s religious ideology and receiving his mark will bring mankind into spiritual death.
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the pres¬ence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” (Rev. 14:9–11)

Some horses go into the north country, which probably represents Russia. Their influence in Russia will have worked, for Russia is one of the nations mentioned in Ezekiel that come against Jerusalem in the battle of Armageddon. Christian nations, at the time the four horses ride through the earth, will not suffer the effects of these plagues nearly as much as certain Middle Eastern countries, such as Turkey, Iran, Ethiopia, and Libya, because the work of the wicked angels will be hindered by God’s people. The promises of divine blessing and the forewarnings of divine cursing as spelled out in Scripture will still be in effect when the horses ride.

The Four Horses of Zechariah

The four horses from Zechariah and the four horses of the Apocalypse are different views of the same horses. The dappled horse of Zechariah is the pale horse in Revelation.
The first chariot had red horses, the second black, the third white, and the fourth dappled—all of them powerful. I asked the angel who was speaking to me, “What are these, my lord?” The angel answered me, “These are the four spirits of heaven, going out from standing in the presence of the Lord of the whole world. The one with the black horses is going toward the north country, the one with the white horses toward the west, and the one with the dappled horses toward the south.” When the powerful horses went out, they were straining to go throughout the earth. And he said, “Go throughout the earth!” So they went throughout the earth. (Zech. 6:2–7)
We see in the book of Job that “One day the angels came to pres-ent themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, ‘Where have you come from?’ Satan an-swered the LORD, ‘From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it’” (Job 1:6–7b). Evil spirits roam this earth. There are definite parallels between satanic activity and these horses in Zechariah and Revelation.

Mountains—and the Woman Who Sits upon Them

“I looked up again—and there before me were four chari¬ots coming out from between two mountains—mountains of bronze!” (Zech. 6:1).
Mountains in Bible prophecy are illus¬trations depicting world empires. “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits” (Rev. 17:9). These seven mountains represent the seven world empires this earth has had since the beginning of creation: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Antichrist’s world government to come. In prophetic history, these chariots and horses will appear between the close of this present dispensation and the beginning of Antichrist’s dominion

A woman in Bible prophecy is always a church. In the case of the woman who sits upon the seven hills, it’s an illustration of a false religious system. False religion will be a major component of the new world order. Speaking of this subject, John recorded: “I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus” (Rev. 17:6). In the New World Order, killing the Christians will be considered a holy cleansing.

The Fifth Seal—Martyrs

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice,
“How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. (Rev. 6:9–11)

In this last verse, martyrs throughout history are told to wait a little longer for God’s judgment to be administered upon earth because there are still more martyrs to come. When Antichrist sets up his killing machine to eliminate all who will not take his mark, it’s possible we will see martyrdom on a major scale. This will be the true test for halfhearted, partially committed men and women who profess Jesus as Savior. It’s inevitable that multitudes will fall from the faith, submitting to the edicts of the man of sin, rather than suffer death.

The Sixth Seal—Apostasy

“I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earth¬quake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every moun¬tain and island was removed from its place.” (Rev. 6:12–14)

It’s interesting to note the figurative language in verse 14:
“The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up.”
Seeing that the deed to the earth is also a scroll as recorded in the same book, it would seem that an illustration of a scroll rolling up might point to a change in the deed’s status. Surely the illustration “every mountain and island was removed from its place” is speaking of a change in dispensations.

Let’s look at verse 13 of this last passage again, focusing on the stars: “And the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.” Here is a good example of the symbolism in Revelation and how to understand it. First, let’s ignore that Revelation was written in symbols. We will assume the stars in this verse are natural and see where this understanding takes us. If we agree that the sun is a typical star and there are millions of stars in our galaxy alone, then we take into account that the diameter of even one medium-size star is over one hundred times that of Earth. Then add to this the account recorded in the next four verses of this same chapter: after the stars fall to the earth, men are complaining about the great day of the Lamb’s wrath. This leaves us with a serious problem. If the stars that fall to the earth are natural, how could Antichrist compile an army for that great battle of Armageddon? No one would be complaining because everyone would be dead. Nevertheless, stars do fall to the earth. This verse is speaking of apostasy.

What do stars falling have to do with a fig tree being shaken, symbolically speaking? The nation of Israel is described as a fi g tree and also an olive tree in the Bible. Men are likened unto trees. Jesus cursed a fig tree because there was no fruit on it. Yet it was the right time of the season for fruit, and there were even leaves on the tree, which Christ saw from a distance, showing that fruit should have been there. Men produce fruit out of a good heart. The hearts of the men of Israel were unfruitful, so God cut down the tree.

John the Baptist said,
“The ax is already at the root of the trees.” 62 Matt. 3:10 NIV

John warned Israel to bring forth fruit. However, John’s words were not heeded and John was beheaded. There’s no ques¬tion John was a prophet sent from God. However, the wind of adversity shook at those Pharisees, and because they loved not the truth, they were cast to the earth symbolically and lost their position in heaven.
Yet the book of Revelation is written about the future, not what Israel did in the past! While the symbolism remains true, the time frame is wrong. The nation of Israel rejected the Messiah, and they were cut off just like John warned. A new branch was grafted into the tree. In the book of Romans we see that the Gentiles are the new branch.

Could the stars that fall in Revelation be weak-minded Christians who have a poor foundation, and in their day of adversity, when they are shaken, they are cast to the earth, symbolically. The symbolism of stars falling in Rev. 6:13 may depict a great falling away of Christians from the faith due to persecution from the Antichrist government.

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
ojoyo
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:28 pm
User avatar
Priest

Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 2:09 pm
Posts: 203
Location: Salt lake Valley

Offline
richkelsey.org wrote:
Could the stars that fall in Revelation be weak-minded Christians who have a poor foundation, and in their day of adversity, when they are shaken, they are cast to the earth, symbolically. The symbolism of stars falling in Rev. 6:13 may depict a great falling away of Christians from the faith due to persecution from the Antichrist government.



I had a seminary teacher that had the same sentiments as you Rich, but obviously from a Mormon point of view. I don't even remember which year I had New Testament seminary, but I remember listening to some lessons about revelation. I wonder how he feels now from his perspective about all the "apostasy" that is running rampant among the LDS.

How does a Mormon viewpoint of this revelation differ from a Christian point? Do they just insert themselves in? I know that most LDS believe that the other denominations are the "Great and Abominable Church" but I wonder how many believe that this revelation applies specifically to the tiny population of LDS comparatively to the population of the Earth.

I know many people that are just waiting for the day that 2 LDS leaders make a trip to Jerusalem and get killed in the streets.

Thats the entire problem with the Bible. Its all open to interpretation. Nostradamus is easier to understand and predict. Anyone can be a monday-morning-quarterback.


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:31 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
ojoyo wrote:
... I had a seminary teacher that had the same sentiments as you Rich, but obviously from a Mormon point of view. I don't even remember which year I had New Testament seminary, but I remember listening to some lessons about revelation. I wonder how he feels now from his perspective about all the "apostasy" that is running rampant among the LDS. ...

Hi ojoyo.

Seeing this is an off topic section, I will just briefly mention that the apostasy, depicted in Revelation, is surely being connected by LDS teachers to the fallout of faith in the LDS Church today. I would love to hear more about this in a on topic section.

As far as the content from my book, one professional review spelled out: “ I have never read or heard a better, more intellectually acceptable interpretation of the Book of Revelation.” — Judi Wu

I self published that work in 2002 and did the final revision in 2008. It took eight to 12 years of my time to write it and basically all of my money. Now, I see a need to do a major up-date.

Like you, I went to school/college and was instructed in bible prophecy, yet with me, I walked out of class because I felt I had a better understanding of the scriptures than the teachers. One teacher explained that the starts falling will be a meteor shower; yet, to John it looked like stars falling.

I have learned much about the world scene since 911 and my views have matured; I really desire to spend another 5 years revising the work which right now has a working title of “The Midnight Hour,” however I am out of funds, so it’s going to be much more difficult this time around.

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: Between 8 -11 days from now, the end of the world will c  |  Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:19 am
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Ron Weinland spelled out:
Quote:
These two prophets of God will complete the work that God has given them to do, then they will be killed in the streets of Jerusalem. Their bodies will remain in the streets of Jerusalem for three and one-half days while the world watches via television. (2008 — God’s Final Witness, p. 22)

Because, according to Ron, he and his wife are the "two prophets of God" he spoke of in his book, we should be able to turn on the evening news tomorrow and see their bodies lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem.

Ron this is your last day on earth!

Adieu

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Print view

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:   
cron

Delete all board cookies | The team | All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.