View unanswered posts
View active topics
It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:00 pm


Author Message
Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:17 am
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Posts: 6226

Offline
The one that sticks out most in my mind was that I was a fan of a really huge Hollywood star. His movies came into my life at a time when I was really depressed and didn't even care if I lived anymore. I would never harm myself, but my zest for life had definitely gone. I was working for the LDS Church at the time and the morale there was terrible. This really messed with my head.

I prayed for help and a few days later a commercial came on TV about one of his movies. Nothing in my life had ever struck me to the core like this one simple commercial did. I HAD to have that movie, so I bought it a few days later. I spent the next weekend, watching the movie 7 times, laughing so hard. It was healing.

I wished that I could thank this celebrity in person for helping me to heal. That's when the still small voice came into my head and told me that I would meet him. I would get to thank him. I would be able to sit down and talk with him. I remember going, "Hello? Who said that?" It struck me that hard.

For the next few years, the voice continued to assure me that I would be meeting this person - not at a crazy premiere, where everyone was jostling for autographs, but that I'd be able to spend actual time sitting and talking with him.

A few years after the voice told me all of that, I was actually invited by this celebrity to come and spend some time with him. In fact, I spent an entire day with him, at his own expense and I was able to tell him everything I ever wanted to tell him. I was unemployed by that the time and had left the LDS Church, but the voice had told me that I wouldn't have to worry about money. It was right.

Now some people would say, "Wow! Well what more proof do you need? The odds of that happening are akin to winning the lottery," and they're probably right. But there's a problem.

The still small voice also told me that when this happened, there would be a particular calling in my life concerning this person and that it would change my entire life. So much so, that I would scarcely recognize it as being my life. I think it meant some sort of charity work or something that this person was in support of. That was 6 years ago and it never happened.

'The Voice' also didn't warn me that when it comes to huge celebrities, people get very strange and nasty. They all jostle about, seeking to be the most important person to that celebrity. I thought we were all in it together, just having a great time. But they felt that I'd received more attention than they did and once we got back from the trip (there were 8 or 9 of us there) they basically shunned me and kicked me out of their group.

I spent the next year crying every time I thought of that trip. I can't look at a photo of what should have been a wonderful trip, without seeing a group of people who hate me. If I could do it again, I wouldn't go. It just wasn't worth it. I suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome for several years after that, because it reminded me too much of all the bullying that I endured in school. It was horrible.

Why didn't the voice warn me about that? Why didn't the other stuff it told me about happen? How could it be so accurate about the main event, but completely drop the ball concerning the other stuff? If it could tell me that the event would happen, then it could also have warned me about the other stuff.

I talked to my mother about it and her feeling was that I had really wanted to meet this person, so I sub-consciously put myself in a situation where I was in the right place, at the right time, to be invited on that trip. If I hadn't gotten involved with the website involved, then it never would have happened.

And she's probably right. We look for things which match. We ignore things which don't match. We ignore the fact that sometimes we work to make things happen ourselves, even when we don't realize we're doing it, and then we yell, "It's a miracle!" But, as crazy as the odds were that I would have been invited on that trip, it is still not outside of the realm of coincidence.

I wanted it to happen. I believed that still, small voice and it happened. For a time, it really strengthened my faith. But what about all of the people who feel certain they're going to meet a celebrity and may even have had a psychic tell them that they would meet them, and yet they never do? I ran into people like that on the website. Some even had psychics tell then that they would marry this celebrity. I thought, "Oh dear."

I told a few people beforehand that I knew I was going to meet him and they basically decided that I was delusional. I bet 9 out of 10 people who've had a voice telling them they would meet him, never do. I'm just one of the few who did have it happen and people look at that and go, "It's a miracle!" But for the people who don't meet him, they're left wondering what happened. How could that little voice be wrong?

I used to look for things to strengthen my faith. Now I look at both sides of the story, weigh them out rationally, and realize that the rational argument is the one which usually wins out and makes more sense.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


Top
BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:40 am
Bishop

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 am
Posts: 494
Location: Southern US (yes, there really is life outside of UT & post LDS)

Offline
That makes sense rainfeather- you don't want to be disappointed again! It sounds like you've received partial truth like me but not the whole truth always either. I prefer to look at my glass as being half full as opposed to half empty. But, it seems to me like God loves us both equally, whether we choose to recognize it or not. I agree folks tend to find whatever they're looking for. "Seek & ye shall find" applies to your celebrity or my faith. :-D

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


Top
Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:47 am
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Posts: 6226

Offline
Well it is one of those things which still makes me go, "Hmmm." Especially when the part of the trip where I did meet him happened exactly as my little voice said it would. Some of the details are amazing. I haven't forgotten that. It probably kept me from full atheism for quite a bit of time.

It's just that I've also gained some critical thinking skills along the way, as I've left the Mormon Church. So I look at it with a more critical eye now. But it's still one of those things which makes me wonder sometimes.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


Top
BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:59 pm
Bishop

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 am
Posts: 494
Location: Southern US (yes, there really is life outside of UT & post LDS)

Offline
I wonder what type of friends you have that would want to take that away from you. Depression is no joke rainfeather- God might have used that celebrities' work to save your life. Maybe you were never suicidal, but I lost a friend that way. She was bipolar, & demons kept telling her all the time to kill herself. It took several years, but she finally took her life in the midst of 1 of her depressive episodes. I think it was God's way of sparing your life :-)

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


Top
Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:06 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Posts: 6226

Offline
I'm way too terrified of death to ever do that, no matter how depressed I am. That's why I've spent my entire life trying to run away from the fact that I was an atheist. I didn't want to be one, but I think I was an atheist at 3.

And once I left the Church, I began to heal immediately and wasn't depressed anymore. But yeah, that celebrity certainly pulled me out of that particular funk I was in. That's what I wanted to thank him for and I got to do that. That still small voice said to me, "It didn't matter if it was a celebrity or a janitor who you needed at that moment. It was the right person at the right time.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


Top
BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:23 pm
Bishop

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 am
Posts: 494
Location: Southern US (yes, there really is life outside of UT & post LDS)

Offline
Well, I'm glad your depression has cleared up & that still small voice clarified things for you. It seems like that still small voice was right on (secular psychologists call that intuition)! Who was the celebrity & what work of theirs inspired you at the time when you needed it most rainfeather? Also, if it's not too personal- did your dad die when you were 3? That's an unusually young age to be an atheist.

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


Top
Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:34 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Posts: 6226

Offline
No, I live with my parents. They're in their 80s now.

Starting when I was about 3, I used to lie awake in bed at night and think, over and over again, "I can't be a nothing. I'm me. I can't be a nothing." I'd work myself up into such a panic that I'd have to go and sleep between my parents for the rest of the night. My poor mother probably wondered what such a young child was doing having such deep thoughts. I've no idea why they were there, but they were.

Oh, back later. My Mom just called me to go walk the dog.

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:19 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
My Short Life as a JW:

Looking back, I can only remember going to the Kingdom Hall twice; but, perhaps I attended the meetings there up to 5 times. I had just decided to start going to meetings when my faith was challenged by a Christian man who presented a better, more convincing, gospel.

In 3 hours that man demolished 2 years of JW study. The main involvement which I had with the JWs, were in the weekly bible studies I was going to at a friend’s apartment.

However, I had left town during those 2 years and I also quit going to weekly studies for a while when I was in town, so, all in all, I probably only attended 10 to 20 studies. As mentioned, I was just getting serious about becoming a JW when a wrench was thrown into the gears.

I also had many problems with JW doctrines and some of the things my teachers were teaching me I found unbelievable. When they claimed Joseph Smith never existed as a historical person all because “no one would name their son Joe, if their last name was Smith,” I thought. These women don’t know what they are talking about!

But, I was impressed with JW literature to some degree; the lessons were put together in a way that seemed somewhat convincing; and I was putting things on the shelf that I was having trouble believing: Such as the 1914 doctrine. No hell. Heaven only for 144,000, etc. So, I wasn’t much of a JW and I only began calling myself one in the last two weeks before I had a change of faith.

I had done a lot of reading; and boy, the JWs really know how to twist things. They can take a bible verse and make it say something completely different than what it means. And, they do this with enough verses to put together their odd doctrines. I saw myself come out of darkness when I was delivered from that faith and it was thick darkness.

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:27 pm
Bishop

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 am
Posts: 494
Location: Southern US (yes, there really is life outside of UT & post LDS)

Offline
Well, that's very unusual to have such deep thoughts at such a young age rainfeather- you sound very bright & precocious! God existing doesn't make you a nobody- I was taught everyone is precious because God created us. I asked my whole congregration (yup, all 15 of them) to pray for you tonight. I hope the still, small voice will give you the peace & wisdom you're seeking :)

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


Top
Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:07 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Posts: 6226

Offline
I wasn't thinking about God when I was 3. I was thinking that I was alive, that I had a life and that I didn't want to just blink out of existence some day. I've no idea why such a young child would think such a thing. Maybe I heard an adult say it. I'm not sure.

So, Rich, if the JWs come to your door and you tell them that you left, don't they have to shun you after that?

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


Top
richkelsey.org
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:27 pm
User avatar
God of Elves, Seer Stones and a Hat

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:57 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Bellevue, WA

Offline
Rainfeather wrote:
... So, Rich, if the JWs come to your door and you tell them that you left, don't they have to shun you after that?

Yes, and I specifically said: “I use to be a Jehovah’s Witness.” I normally mention that I wasn’t baptized because I often want the Witnesses to stick around and hear me out. This time it was different.

I was hoping the ladies would just shun me because one of them was quite old and I didn’t want to upset her. But, she was not the one doing the talking. The one talking was very pushy so I did some pushing back.

One time a JW asked me, “Were you baptized?” and I got the impression if I had said “yes” he would have left. The deal is I wasn’t baptized and I’m not going to lie. But, I was really surprised that the two women stayed after I said I had been a JW.
I guess it was their call.

_________________
My LDS Series:
http://www.richkelsey.org/lds_index.html
Rich Kelsey


Top
Rainfeather
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:49 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Posts: 6226

Offline
BornAgainChristian wrote:
I asked my whole congregration (yup, all 15 of them) to pray for you tonight. I hope the still, small voice will give you the peace & wisdom you're seeking :)


Aww, thank you. :)

_________________
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


Top
BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:30 am
Bishop

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 am
Posts: 494
Location: Southern US (yes, there really is life outside of UT & post LDS)

Offline
I never answer the door or my phone anymore because I realize that nobody knocks on the door unexpectedly for my benefit, unless they're delivering a package, in which case they usually leave it anyway, esp. since I don't want to argue w/ salespeople, religious or otherwise. If I want a product or religious service, I'll intentionally seek it out. I wonder why those ladies stuck around- maybe they misread/mistakenly projected interest on your part or are really bored & lonely- desperate to reactivate you richkelsey? Somehow deluded themselves into seeing a glimmer of hope where none exists- like a person in love deludes themselves into thinking their crush is really into them when they're not?

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


Top
Abinadi
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:15 pm
User avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:23 am
Posts: 7887
Location: D&C 121:39

Offline
(Abinadi, poking his nose in a bit late)

That's a great story, Rainfeather. Maybe it was two things. A sort of spirit message (or a message created by your own spirit, in order to give you tranquility), and a very human condition - especially with those others who envied your position so much they shunned you.

As for Jehovah's Witnesses, I hope I get in a good enough mood to visit with them again some day. But I'm afraid ti will be like their visits with you, Rich. I can't help myself. When the Bible is misused, or when human reasoning is bent, I have to say something. Then there is this thing - I did it as a Mormon, I'm sure - of "self-righteous indignation" - where "I" (as the True Believer) tell the critic that no matter what the critic has studied or learned or accomplished, regardless, because they "lack the Spirit" and because "I" have studied even more intensely, and my studies have been accompanied by the blessings of the Holy Spirit (and with Mormons, "the priesthood), "I" am obviously right and the critic is obviously completely wrong, and probably evil as well. It can be great fun. It can also be tremendously tedious and unrewarding for the critic.


Top
BornAgainChristian
Post  Post subject: Re: JWS AT THE DOOR – AGAIN  |  Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:18 pm
Bishop

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 am
Posts: 494
Location: Southern US (yes, there really is life outside of UT & post LDS)

Offline
Abinadi, sounds like a classic case of 1's ego getting the better of them, which everyone in leadership must deal with.

_________________
"Obtained a restraining order against all truebelieving LDS Sept. 2012 since, after all, there really is life after leaving Mormonism & I'm never returning"


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Print view

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:   
cron

Delete all board cookies | The team | All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.