??? The Mormon God, up there on Kolob, is neither omniscient nor omnipotent!
Nor is that God perfectly loving nor is he perfectly just. The last two are claimed for him, but I believe it can be shown that he is not. Well, the loving bit is hard, but he arguably is not perfectly just. The former two are not even claimed for him.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

I'm no philosopher ...

But if God can't dwell in our hearts then He is not Omnipresent. If he is not omnipresent, then there are places where he can't go which throws doubt on his omnipotent attribute.

If He once was as man, then He was not always God and might still be growing up, learning, etc. On to eternal progression. Meaning He is not yet all knowing nor all perfect ... He's just good enough to strike out on His own an create a family of his own. Like a teenage mother.

If He cannot create matter then He is not all powerful.

If intelligences could not be created by Him then He is not all powerful.

If Intelligences existed before this world and cannot be created then either there is some other process that creates them (A higher more powerful God?) or we risk running out in the endless procession of Gods. At some point, the last intelligence will be promoted to their eternal state. Will it be in this world? Will it be the next generation's universe? What happens to Gods who become Gods late in the game when no more intelligences are left ... how will they have their own eternal families?

If God was once as we are, then He was once a sinner. Lustful, angry, jealous, etc. The spirit that posessed his Body when he was as we are ... If it rose with him in the next life then that same spirit is subject to these same sin tenancies.

If God had a Father who had a father, who then was the first? Was He then omniprescent, omnipotent, all loving, perfect, and never stained by flesh?

Does God the Father get together with God the Grandfather and God the Grandmother? Do they come and counsel Him in His deity-hood? Maybe they are the ones who corrected the Blacks in the priesthood teaching or maybe they are the ones who said, "Hold on, those people are not yet ready for the united order." or "Really, you had to pick Joseph to restore the church? I know you've never restored a church before but why him?" or "You're making a mess of this restoration. Keep your doctrine consistent or you'll loose your believers." or "Why did you let Al Gore invent the Internet!?!?!?! Now your people are going to know the truth about how you screwed up early in the restoration and leave in droves." Don't get me started on all the God the Mother-in-laws.

If polygamy is an eternal principle, if 1 wife is not enough, how many wives is enough? In earthly terms there is a practical limit. In heaven those practicalities vanish (or God's mansion has a few rooms, not an endless number of rooms) and he is again bound by greater powers. If 1 is good and 2 is better, is there a number N where N is the perfect number of eternal wives? Or might the benefit be additive and there is no limit to the benefit of more eternal wives?

If gender is an inherent attribute of our spirits and there is a benefit to having endless wives, then in the economy of the celestial kingdom there needs be many times more women then men. Why then is it about balanced on this earth? And if you claim that there are more righteous women then men, what then of higher rate of infant mortality among men then women ... might that balance things out again? Where does the multitude of eternal wives come from?

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I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17

The Mormon God is "not necessary".
He is contingent, so he must also be incompletely actualized/perfected - that is, he is not and never can be all he can ever be.

Like you say, God does not create intelligences. He might disassemble souls - I read, can't remember which prophet, maybe BY or one of the LeBarons, that the most fallen spirit children, like Satan, will be "disorganized" and start from the beginning again. The view of "intelligences" is that they were always there. Kind of like Lovecraft's Azathoth, "the blind idiot god at the center of the cosmos", miraculously spawning creatures more powerful and intelligent than itself.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

Can God dwell inside of Devil? Can God dwell in Hell?

If He can not create Himself then He is not all powerfull. If He can not create evil He is not all powerful. Who created evil? Who created what God cannot create(evil)?

If good was created by God then it was time when there was no good. If there was no good there was no good God. I may assume this. But I am not philosopher either.

Infinity means NO begining no END. Space and matter has no begining no end. I know it is hard to understand. But I believe we will after this life.


Not necessary to assume that He was a sinner. Jesus is God. He was once a man. He was perfect man. He lived here, He suffered, He loved, He ate, He slept, He felt pain, He was born and He died.
The same we may assume about His and our Heavenly Father. We also know that Father knew good and EVIL. HOW de He know evil? The same like Jesus knew it. When Jesus was mortal PERFECT man He learned by His OWN experience.
Like Father like Son. Son does what He saw His Father was doing or doing now.

Do you believe that you will be like this when you resurrect in perfect body? Jesus was once mortal man and He was not a sinner. He(SON) had temptations like we do. Father had temptations like we do. But they never sinned.


Jesus was never stained by flesh. Or was He? Like Father like Son. He was only stung by death. But he overcame death EXACTLY like HIS FATHER did once. Jesus saw His Father dead and He saw His Father's resurrection. I assume in some kind of vision. Jesus DID what He SAW His Father DID.
There is no begining there is no end. That calls from ETERNITY TO ETRNITY.
Is God made of something or He is NOTHING? Did God create Himself and matter from which He is made? Or He never created it? I am not a philosopher but I just have these questions.


Possible. It would be a wonderfull thing. Do you think Jesus get together with His earthly mother and His Heavenly Father? Father and Son in heaven get together. Beautiful thing. Grandfather, Father and Son get together. Beautiful thing.


Possible. I don't see any problem with that. Did Father counseled His Son? Like Father like Son. Like Grandfather like Father. It's a beautiful thing.

I believe that it is possible that once you are a Creator you don't need councel of Parents. I may be wrong. When I get there I will know. Prophets don't know much about this that is why prophets do not talk much about it.


You had to pick Moses to gather Israel? Why Moses?You had to pick John the Baptist TO PREPAIRE THE WAY? Why John? You had to pick Son to save us? Why Jesus and not Michael or Gabriel? Those are very good questions, productofchoice. When we get there we might have answers.

There is ONE BIG FAMILY IN HEAVEN. If there is Father and Son it would be only logical to assume that there is Mother also, or Grandson, or Mother-in-law. But that is MY philosophy.

Not polygamy, but plural marriage. We didn't practice polygamy, but PLURAL MARRIAGE. Nobody says that one wife is not enough. How many wives is enough in some cases? As many as GOD thinks is enough.

What are you talking about? Everybody will be perfectly happy with one wife or two wives, or how many wives God will give.


Were did you get it? About endless wives?
May be in heaven it will be more women than men. Who knows? Are there more newborn women or newborn men? may be it will be more men than women.


I don't know what you are talking about? Where did you get that one man will have multitude of wives? It will be man who will have only one wife. It is very possible. It will be man in Celestial Glory who will have not even one wife. It will be women in CG who will have no husband. It will be Gods and serving Angels in Kingdom of God.
Don't you REMEMBER this, ex-LDS productofchoice? So, we don't know how many men and how many women will get there. How many men with one wife and how many men with 2, or 3, or 33 wives. We don't know how many men and women will get there with no spouse.
Only God knows.

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THE TIME WILL COME WHEN NO MAN OR WOMAN WILL BE ABLE TO ENDURE ON BORROWED LIGHT. EACH WILL HAVE TO BE GUIDED BY THE LIGHT WITHIN HIMSELF. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE IT, HOW CAN YOU STAND?
- Heber C. Kimball, 1856

Obviously, the mormon man-god cannot. Productofchoice is talking about the One Supreme Eternal God. Why couldn’t such a god dwell in hell and the devil. Such a god would have to, as much as he dwelt in any place or being.Productofchoice, if he cannot create matter, then he is not the Supreme Creator. Abish, mormons do not understand God as Cause. To talk about the First God “creating himself” is begging the question. God does not need to “create himself” because he is Cause, or “causation itself”, not effect. Of course the mormon god on (“or near”) Kolob is a resultant being, an inferior, finite being; he was created. The God that Product and I would talk about is a “Being” which is Cause Itself. “That gets into some pretty deep theology that [mormons] don't know very much about.”One could argue that way, if evil were a “creation” in the sense that beings and substantial objects are creations. There are many, in christian and nonchristian religions, who see evil not as a “creation”, but as a lack, an absence of something.I wonder how big the hotel and assembly hall are. If “this is life eternal” and gods and their creations extend back in time “infinitely”, there must be over a trillion, trillion, trillion generations, not a pitiful three. I can imagine three generations having a family reunion. I’ve been at reunions with seven generations. But a trillion trillion trillion at a “heavenly get together”? That is just plain ridiculous. Unless what Eadie claimed to experience is true.The problem is logistics and time. Right now there are billions of people on this one earth. If “God” is counseling people, and if he spent only five minutes for each one, and there has been an infinity in which to produce worlds, endless billions of citizens, and an infinite line of messiahs (by the same God), then infinity itself would not be long enough to counsel them all even for a minute each. Five minutes each just for the people who die each day on this earth, equals about 12,633 hours per day for counseling! Presently there are a few minutes less than 24 hours in a day. That is one reason I believe the next life is similar to this life. We do not see or meet god directly, but as Paul said, “through the things that are made” – nature and people. No problem with that? If he only spent one measly minute counseling each person, that’s still more hours needed per day than there are in three months! There is a problem. And if God is managing more than a single planet, the problem is compounded. Plus, he needs time to counsel with his “Grandfather, Father” etc. So much to do, so little time to do it. And that doesn’t even touch the 360,000 people born each day.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

Mormon God doesn't dwell in hell. Because if He dwells in hell then devil and demons live in presence of God and this is eternal life to live in presence of God.
We(LDS) don't believe in this.

They do. But, probably, not exactly like you do.

Then God can not create Cause.
This is what God can not create according to you. So, He is not all powerful.

Then God according to you, guys, is also not all powerful. He can not create Cause.

Neither do you.

Yes. But they don't know. Their arguments have no proof. Some people belive that intellience is not matter. Wer belive that it is matter. Spirit is matter. Who knows may be evil is matter? Or feelings or toughts are matter?

Yes, they have no proof. Not even revealtion from God. So, they don't know.

Huge, it is hard to imagine to mortal man.

We can not understnad eternity and infinity. We can not count all stars, we don't know even that number. But God knows, and He can count.

There is no problem with time in eternity.

So little time? What is INFINITY time?
And God never works alone. He has His prophets. He has angels. He teach them, they teach the rest. There is Spirit. spirit can councel billions of people at the same time. God has means to do things and we have no idea about them.

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THE TIME WILL COME WHEN NO MAN OR WOMAN WILL BE ABLE TO ENDURE ON BORROWED LIGHT. EACH WILL HAVE TO BE GUIDED BY THE LIGHT WITHIN HIMSELF. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE IT, HOW CAN YOU STAND?
- Heber C. Kimball, 1856

(Abinadi, from a Christian perspective) "Probably”? That sounds neither confident nor knowledgeable. Give it a try, Abish, explain the mormon concept of "God as Cause." Or even just your own personal concept of "God as Cause."That’s the point. God is Cause Itself, not something to be created. It is not clear what you mean by “God can not create Cause”. If God could not create "cause", then He would have created nothing, because he has to create the cause of things through His own Causality. Maybe you are confusing "cause", "causation" and the theological concept of "Uncaused Cause". Being “Cause”, in itself, is not sufficient to create. There must be a direction and sequence. God creates those things which determine the direction and sequence - He creates their causes. If he could not create cause itself (between a cause and its effect), then nothing would ever happen. Things would just sit there. Stick with mormonism.No, not according to me. Don't misrepresent my beliefs.But I do not argue that God is “all-powerful”! (whatever that concept may mean to you).I consider that to be name-calling, Abish. Please explain how you reached that conclusion. I certainly do not have perfect knowledge of deity, but I do have a grasp of some aspects of Christian theology. I have studied in particular, notions of causality, God as First Cause, and cause-effect relationships, especially as related to Christian concepts of deity. So tell me how you conclude that I do not know very much about what I have spent considerable time and effort in studying.That is correct. You are now arguing against yourself. There is no proof that evil is a creation, or as you say, “They don’t know. Their arguments have no proof.” Therefore, if God did not create 'evil', that would not make God less powerful. You are getting tangled in contradictory arguments of your own devising. Having the power to create something that cannot be created is a contradiction in terms. Do you see this? By the way, are you familiar with the arguments of those who see evil as an absence of something rather than an existent thing? Is that why you say “they have no proof”? Do you know what a “proof” is, in debate?”Evil is matter”!? That is pretty weird. Thanks for the pysma.
Would you please explain how it is that you believe evil can be matter? I know that is a view of some Gnostics, and that there are self-proclaimed Gnostics today; and I know that mormon thought tends towards Gnosticism. But for the years I had been a mormon, and the decades I have studied mormonism, I do not recall having come across any official teaching that “evil is matter.” I am very interested in your sources for this - are they your personal interpretation of scripture; are they the teachings of the prophets; where can I find these curious mormon teachings? As for, “Who knows may be evil is matter?”, I know whether evil is matter.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

Do you have a point? Or do you just like saying ‘no proof’ everytime you disagree with something? Have you nothing of substance to say on the subject? Do you have proof that mormonism is true? If you are not willing to present proofs of mormonism, don’t you think it is one-sided to criticize others for not having proofs? And I sincerely doubt that you know whether they have proofs or not. Have you read even St. Augustine’s explanation? (Enchiridion, 10-12) Have you read anything by Augustine or Thomas Aquinas? Or more recent theologians? Have Mormon prophets given exhaustive or even partial expositions on the nature “and substance” of evil? Are your words the flowing of life-giving water from abundant reservoirs of knowledge, or are you simply scratching desperately at a dry crater for any drop of support?

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

If Kolob statures resemble Earth statures, we can figure an average height of somewhere between 5 and 6 feet, and average width of from one to three feet, an average dept of maybe 10 inches (?) to a foot or two (sorry). So a single seat or standing place would take up, roughly 5 to 12 cubic feet. For a total of roughly 81,522,853,456,470,220,000,000,000 cubic miles. And, of course, this is for a limited audience of only a trillion, trillion, trillion people - either close representatives, or one single person to represent each generation - not stretching back as far as we can go, since mormons do believe in an endless regression, but only a small finite section of the family of the gods.

"it is hard to imagine to mortal man." Actually, it is not hard for astronomers to imagine the space required, since they deal in light years and parsecs all the time, and study entire galaxies and galaxy clusters. What is hard to imagine is how to endure the din of voices of that many people, and what they will stand on that will not break under their impossible megatons of combined weight. There are many problems with any argument that claims God and the spirit world consist of physical matter, whether solid, liquid, gas, or other finery.

Those figures, by the way, exclude space for aisles, arm-rests, corridors, cloak rooms, escalators and elevators, refreshment stands, kitchens, toilet facilities, plumbing and lighting fixtures, sound systems, ventilation, box-seats, VIP lounge, administration offices, building facilities, medical support, and parking spaces.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

(Abinadi, from a more or less christian perspective)Are you trying to make a point, or do you just not understand numbers? Your response is so empty of substance as to be meaningless. Can you not understand? Do you just skim what is posted? The problem is not with how much time is available. The problem is logistics. If I have an infinite amount of time to interview people in a line, if I give ‘x’ minutes to each person, but during those ‘x’ minutes another hundred people get in line, then even with eternity to interview them, it will be impossible to interview them all. That’s with a Mormon God on a finite world, dealing with finite bodies. In a more spiritual realm, metaphysical rather than spiritual, with a Spirit that can be several places at once, that sort of “omnipresent” god, can interview any number of people simultaneously. Do you even have a point? What are the means you claim for God, about which you have no idea?

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

OK, so back to the intelligences that are eternal of which the LDS teach that we are one of.

LDS teach that we are one of these intelligences and we came to earth to get bodies so that when we die and go to heaven and become gods, we can then repeat the process with our own eternal families.
LDS also teach that the intelligences always existed and cannot be created.


So then, what is the role of an eternal mother? She can't bear intelligences.
God the Father/Adam made Adam&Eve, not God the Mother.
My parents made my body, not God the Mother.
When raised from the dead, I'll get my body back but prefected, not some new body from God the Mother.

What purpose are the many polygamous wives if they can't make new intelligences? Maybe that's why God the Mothers aren't spoken about ... because they're ... you know, infertile.

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I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17

My understanding - from what I was taught by Mormon leaders at church, during Education Week, and at BYU, is that the God-men and God-women do produce spirits in which to house those "intelligences". (Another divisible level of existence!) However, although a few of the BYU professors and General Authorities have taught that they make spirit bodies "the same way we do on earth", there are many (mostly laity) who say that they do not make them that way. However, those who deny natural insemination, gestation, labor, and birth, have in all cases been able to offer any theory as to how spirits might be conceived and born, if not "naturally". I hope you get a good, updated mormon answer, Product.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

Does that then make us tripartite beings? Intelligence, Spirit and Body? Each and every one of us a trinity

So if Intelligences and spirits are 2 separate things and intelligences existed first and God the Mother created the spirit, then did God the Father artifically inseminate her with the intelligence so she could put the intelligence into the spirit?

This is becomming so clear.

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I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17

Danger. The more parts a being has, the more ways there are to dissemble it. God is said to be "One" meaning (among other things) indivisible. If we humans are indivisible in spirit world, we should get along fine. But if we are divisible - if we have "parts" - then there will be ways to separate those parts. The natural consequence of separating the parts of any living being, is its demise. So if we are "tripartite" or even "binary", we will die once we get to heaven. Dammit.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

The Mormon god doesn't have a second to spare for counseling. Consider the fact that in order to populate the earth at the rate of 360,000 people per day he needs to have sex 360,000 times per day. I guess that answers the question of how many wives he must have: *98,550,000. Gasp, I wonder if they have Viagra in the celestial kingdom?!

*Assumes each wife has a single baby once every 9 months for all of eternity with no breaks.

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Dipsnort, sniper of truth and aspiring Harriet Tubman of Mormonism

Hope God the Mothers aren't snugglers, no time for that.

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I resigned from the Church of THE Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Feb 2011)

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad." - Luke 8:17

Yes, I do believe this. By the way, because we don't know much about this and it is not important for our salvation, if LDS don't believe this he or she will not be ex-communicated.


Yes, I believe this.


As I understand Gods - Father and Mother know how to ORGANIZE spiritual matter(intellience). HOW They do that we don't know. We have NO revelations from God.


I believe that spirits(children) are organized by both Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. We don't know about physical bodies of Adam and Eve. We know that God created them. We have Bible where we read about it. We have NO other revealtions from God.

I believe that both do that. How I don't know. Nobody knows. If there was no Mother, or Father it wouldn't be us.


I have another idea. May be we ALL have ONE Father but different Mothers. And because we can not know who has which Mother we do not talk about. We will learn over there.



I believe in this

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THE TIME WILL COME WHEN NO MAN OR WOMAN WILL BE ABLE TO ENDURE ON BORROWED LIGHT. EACH WILL HAVE TO BE GUIDED BY THE LIGHT WITHIN HIMSELF. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE IT, HOW CAN YOU STAND?
- Heber C. Kimball, 1856

It is just my opinion. I do not know if evil is a matter. The same as those who say that evil is not matter, they also share their opinions. I just believe that intelligence is matter, then it is very possible that evil is also matter. And if it is matter it was never created by GOOD God.
I only say that it is possible. NOBODY knows if it is truth or false.
My point to show productofchoice that it is not only LDS believe in God that is not all powerful, but even productofchoice can not say that Gos is all powerful.
All this what i say is just my philosophy, I don't calim it is truth

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THE TIME WILL COME WHEN NO MAN OR WOMAN WILL BE ABLE TO ENDURE ON BORROWED LIGHT. EACH WILL HAVE TO BE GUIDED BY THE LIGHT WITHIN HIMSELF. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE IT, HOW CAN YOU STAND?
- Heber C. Kimball, 1856

Then why waste time teaching it that could better be used spreading the gospel? Why teach needless stuff? Since you do not know how it is done, you are not qualified deny that it might be done the same as physical matter (bodies) are "organized" - through sexual intercourse of the parents. Which is, in fact, what all mormons were taught by Brigham Young and his associate prophets! Obviously.I cannot imagine how you could know that “nobody” knows. Out of umpteen billion people on this planet, you claim to know that there is not one single person who knows this. What about John, or the three Nephites, or Thomas Monson. I do not see what possible justification you could offer for claiming authoritatively that they do not know. Oh shameful villainy! That I should live to see this day, in which my own parentage is belittled and set aside as naught! Oh suffering Jesus, make it didn’t happen!

Besides full siblings, I have half siblings on my father’s side and half-siblings on my mother’s side. All of us siblings and half-siblings know each other. We know each other’s parents. If God can reveal, “I am that I am,” He can also reveal, “Moses, Your Mother is Sarah” and “Jesus, Your Mother is Miriam”. What inexcusable justification can you possibly have to make the dastardly claim that we “can not know” who our own mothers are!!! Good Lord, what kind of Father is he anyway!?

(Are we unwanted bastards! Since evil is eternal, according to you, maybe some other God committed adultery with some of our Mothers.)

For things like that, knowing who our mothers are, I guess we’d need a prophet, or patriarchal blessings. Oh, if only the Mormon church had those, then I’ll be we could know who are mothers are. What a shame that the Mormon church has neither prophets nor credible patriarchal blessings.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man

Then you do NOT understand in what I believe you presumptuous mormon. I do NOT believe God created “out of nothing”. I don’t believe there ever was “nothing”, cannot be “nothing”, and never will be “nothing”. Explaining how God created will take up more time than I wish to, so let me just say in the most general terms, “God created, neither out of ‘nothing’ nor out of ‘eternally existing matter’.”

From now on, instead of saying “NOBODY knows” as you are wont to do, you should be honest and say that YOU don’t know.

Abish, my thoughts on theology are rather complicated, “cafeteriaized”, and connected to explanations and defenses by professional theologians. I am not smart enough to devise some way that God existed, created, or anything else. Personally, for me to believe in “God”, I have to pretty much just have faith. But thanks to people I consider near geniuses - at least they think a lot more clearly and deeply than I ever had - I do have an elementary grasp of some points in theology. My thoughts have never stopped evolving, and sometimes have contradictory points. Because of their changing (hopefully progressive) nature, imperfections, and occasional contradictions, it is unlikely that anyone could say they “understand” what I believe about the nature of “God” or the way that things came into existence. It’s way easier for me to give the names of authors and books to try to explain my beliefs, because I hardly understand them myself!There is no proof that God is made of matter; in fact it would be impossible. This is a failing of mormon theology, to be unable to comprehend that there can be forms of existence other than of physical matter. It is not necessary that God be a being of matter; in fact he cannot be. Further, it is not necessary that God be a “Being” at all, in the sense that people and planets are beings. The Ultimate God could conceivably be a Process, or as some say, “Nature itself”.

If God were matter, his “body” would be divisible. He would change, dissolve, die. If not, then that means there is some power that keeps his body cohesive and alive. If there is some power that keeps God’s body cohesive and alive, that power is greater than God, and therefore that power is God. In that case, what you have been calling “God” is really nothing more than some glorified archangel or less.

You are begging the question again. It has not been shown that God is “organized” out of matter. The only “kinds of matter” I know are solid, liquid, gas, and plasma; have you studied others in your physics classes/research? Again I remind you, that I am not the one claiming that God is “ALL powerful”. (Were I to make such a claim, I hope I define the term ‘powerful’.) Secondly, you continue with your confusion. I do not know if you are being intentionally obstinate, or you truly do not understand. Whether God is all-powerful or not, if God is “Cause Itself”, there is nothing more powerful than Cause. Nothing can affect Cause, but Cause effects Everything. Got it?Then we most certainly do not agree.

You have introduced a new concept - “by the power of the Priesthood”. If God needs the power of the Priesthood to “organize”, then “by the power of the Priesthood” is more powerful than God. Therefore, Priesthood is the Ultimate God, and all the gods that use it are no more than glorified archangels, if that.Well, sweetheart, may I remind you what you actually did say, since you tend to shoot from the hip without doing real searching of the scriptures, and without paying attention to what I actually do say (or yourself either, apparently): You know that you were not responding to lack of “perfect” knowledge! You were responding to my contrast of the inferior, finite, mormon resultant being-god with a being that is neither inferior, finite, mormon, resultant, or even a “being”. The quote I used was an admission by your Prophet Hinckley that Mormons including himself do not know much about the nature of God. The very fact that I explained, however incomplete and imperfect, God as a necessary, non-material “thing” which is “Cause itself” demonstrates that I do in fact know, in contrast to the mormons that Hinckley was talking about, “very much about” it. In other words, you were not telling me my knowledge was imperfect (that was not the issue); you were telling me that I don’t know much about what I was talking about. If you want to apologize for your exaggeration, that’s fine. But if you continue to insist I “don’t know much about it”, please provide some honest support for your falsehood.

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"Everyone has to find his own path." - Ip-Man